DISQUS

MB · 2 years ago

Thanks for the story. My own solution to addressing this problem of ridiculous overzealousness is . . . taking more pictures. And pushing back very firmly against any undeserved pressure.

Anthony Citrano · 2 years ago

Photographers: please download The Photographer's Right, a great flyer by attorney Bert Krages. [h/t Marty Lyons]

Hooligan · 2 years ago

I'd stick up for yourself & file a complaint with the Bexar County Sheriff Dept's internal affairs/internal control/risk management or whatever PCish term they might have for it these days. You'd be doing so quite a bit after the fact, which is unfortunate, but give Lt. Dreyer some heat for his actions. Illegal conduct carried out 'under the color of the law' is investigated by the FBI, so maybe let them know, as well as the local district attorney/prosecuting attorney's office, in case there have been numerous other citizen complaints about Dreyer in the past, or might be more in the future. Since you unfortunately smelled his breath, could he have been drunk at the time?

ALSO, let's investigate & publicize the "communications buildings" that this knucklehead was rambling about, then send their owners and/or operators a letter explaining that an off-duty Bexar County Sheriffs Lt by the name of Phil Dreyer is doing a gross disservice to them by harassing members of the public in the area, and justifying his stupid & perhaps illegal actions by pointing out to these strangers that there is allegedly critical communications infrastructure located right there.

Your concerns over Dreyer's conduct seem to have an infinitely stronger foundation than his concerns over your conduct.

I wish of course you'd politely said "no" to him when he demanded ID, but...

Hooligan · 2 years ago

Another idea: send an "FYI" type letter to the local chamber of commerce & convention & visitor's bureau explaining (your version of) what happened, that you've told many other people about the event, and that while you otherwise had a great time there patronizing businesses, etc. you will not be back, and you feel obligated to caution others about going to that area, because solely & specifically of Bexar County Sheriff Dept. Command Officer Phil Dreyer's unwarranted attack & hostility directed towards you.

And another fun thing:

Organize a group of people to wander the area with cameras, and snap lots of photos. Have at least one person positioned at a distant vantage point where they could record on video-tape any ugly encounters with Dreyer or someone else.

Anthony Citrano · 2 years ago

Hooligan -

Thanks.

I initially declined to show my ID, but he clearly told me I would be arrested if I did not present it. You and I know this is not legal. A friend who is a reporter for a major daily hit on this as well - he said "this would have made a great story if you'd taken him up on that offer." Well, I'll remember that next time. ;-p I honestly just did not want to go through it to prove the point.

I am certain he was not intoxicated. Drunk on badge power, maybe - but not alcohol.

I considered an IA complaint to the Bexar County Sheriff's Office, but have no confidence it would make a whit of difference. I do believe public light/heat, as I'm aiming for here, has much more potential impact.

Finally, the buildings were Bexar County buildings, and according to him, he was teaching a class inside one of them at the time of the incident.

Also: I noticed the next morning there is a security camera in the back of one of the buildings. I'd really love to see the tape.

Rob · 2 years ago

It was my understanding that laws requiring people to show ID to a police officer, even if there was no crime being committed or probable cause, were ok. A quick check on <a href="http://www.papersplease.org/hiibel/index.html" rel="nofollow">PapersPlease.org and WikiPedia shows this to be the case. As much as one might disagree with the Supreme Court in this matter, I think it's been settled. At least, for now...

fishbane · 2 years ago

Rob is incorrect. There is no requirement to show ID to cops. What the law says is that cops can parse the language to encourage ID showing. But there is not a requirement.

Anonymous · 2 years ago

No Rob - the Supreme Court decided (5-4) that a citizen can be compelled to show ID only when the officer has "reasonable suspicion" of criminal activity. I don't see how this could pass that test. It's doubtful the Bexar County Sheriff cares.

Jonathan Thornburg · 2 years ago

During the cold war, it was commonly said by people
who'd visited the Soviet Union that its restrictions
on public photography in "sensitive" areas, and its
omnipresent "your papers please" demands from the
police, were exemplars of its being a police state.
Now it seems the shoe is on the other foot.....

Josh · 2 years ago

I don't understand, he received a service pin, they only give these to the best.

Check out page 2 of the BEXAR COUNTY LOCAL EMERGENCY PLANNING COMMITTEE:

Lt. Dreyer noted that the Sheriff’s Department is getting more aggressive with training and the availability of
equipment.

This could mean that top secret communication equipment was stored in the building...

But maybe the most interesting thing is that they have a picture of Bin Laden on the Sheriff's website. Maybe San Antonio is hotbed of terror related activity...

Fred · 8 months ago

"But maybe the most interesting thing is that they have a picture of Bin Laden on the Sheriff's website. Maybe San Antonio is hotbed of terror related activity..."

Perhaps the reason that Bin Laden couldn't be found in Afghanistan or Pakistan is that he emigrated to Texas?

Thomas Hawk · 2 years ago

I'm sorry that this happened to you. Thanks for reporting on it. It's only by reporting on these incidents and raising awareness that we can make the world a more tolerable place for public photography.

Photography is not a crime.

Blogged here: http://thomashawk.com/2007/03/lieutenant-phillip-dreyer-even-in-bexar.html

Jason · 2 years ago

I had a very similar run-in with some MBTA (transit/subway) cops about a month back, it's detailed at http://badcharlie.blogspot.com/.

I'm still pondering whether or not I should file a complaint for the illegal seizure which took place. Luckily for me, though, we (meaning photographers in general and the ACLU) were able to have the policy changed. I just carry it around with me. Been stopped twice, both cops left me alone after showing them the documentation.

As for you, consider carrying around Krages PDF The Photographers Right.

Luck,
Jason

Jason · 2 years ago

Rob, that's incorrect. Read up on Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada. In short, the officer must have a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed.

Jason

Kenneth Fair · 2 years ago

If I read the Hiibel decision correctly, the legality of the arrest there depended on a Nevada statute that made it a misdemeanor not to provide identification when detained. Not all states have such laws. In particular, I don't believe Texas' statute is similar. Texas Penal Code §38.02(a) makes it a misdemeanor to refuse to give your name, address, and date of birth when arrested. Subsection (b) makes it a misdemeanor to give a false name, address, or date of birth when you are arrested, you are detained, or the officer has good cause to believe you are the witness to a criminal offense. Neither of these appears to require a person who is detained (but not arrested) to provide identification.

Anon in Texas · 2 years ago

He's an embarrassment to Law Enforcement & to Texas.
San Antonio's #1 source of income is tourism. Heck it's the tourism capital of Texas. What do tourists have? Cameras.
Someone needs to teach the LEOs of San Anton about photographer's rights.

Steve · 2 years ago

Sounds good, Kenneth, about providing ID. It does not say you have to show a DL or ID, you just have to say it (truthfully).

You might beat the rap, but not the ride. I would file a formal complaint.

Brad3000 · 2 years ago

My interest is in this topic is my contact with the NYPD/NYC. I was caught in a sting/revenue generation exercise on a morning commute into Manhattan - I turned left on my green arrow from 42st & 8th ave only to be confronted with 50-100 pedestrians walking against their Dont Walk signs. I waited a minute and eventually found a gap and completed my turn. I got to 43rd street and saw an NYPD officer (1 of 30) walk from this 43rd st corner passed me and then back to in front of me - he motioned me over and said I had "cut" the double yellow lines back at 42nd. He took my papers and 45mins later came back with 4 summonses - failing to give way to pedestrians, reckless driving, failing to give way to oncoming traffic, crossing double yellows. I went from 0 & a perfect record to 15 points in 60secs...

It turns out, me and the 30cars they pulled over with me were setup by the fact that the crosswalk cops were deliberately letting people cross illegally while the string cops roped in the victims. I fought hard and won after a few $000's. The reader should have figured out by now that the cop that wrote the summons was a block away from this intersection and could not have even SEEN my car from the 100's of 9am pedestrians surrounding him. He signed the tickets and thus lied thru his teeth bigtime. I did nothing wrong. I will never trust or support the NYPD scum ever again - thats a fact.

About 2months later - also on the morning commute I was on 23rd st around Lex ave, when I was faced with an NYPD patrol car coming at me on the wrong side of the road with no flashers,horns or sirens going.

The lights changed and I moved a few feet into the intersection and put both hands up (one out the window) in a calm gesture of "I dont know what we should do here?".

The cops pull back to left side of the street in front of me and slowing pull off passed me and then 60secs later turned around and ran me down in the next block with full lights/sirens going - just to ask me about "my strange facial expressions and what was my problem" with the verbal threats for 5mins of "dealing with this in court". They never asked for my DL etc. I said no and they ran back to their car parked across my lane and the other sides, and just sped off - initimidating little asswipes & a disgrace to their uniform that they were.

It only goes to validate the purpose of vehicle DVRs for civlians - they have them and so sadly should we.

DoNOT under any circumstances trust a NYPD cop - if they can set you up, or screw you in same other way, they will.

eas · 2 years ago

"You are between two buildings, housin' communications equipment."

Sounds like the cop just gave away "sensitive information" to someone he regarded as a potential terrorist.

Neil · 2 years ago

I've had several similar run-ins in NY state. It's very sad, and sometimes I now feel like a criminal when I take pictures. When the cops go by, you think, oh oh. That's not how it should be.

Dave · 2 years ago

I would call you a liar except, I don't have enough fingers to count the number of times the same thing has happened to me. I am frankly as tired of it as I am the fearmongering put upon us and overreaction that this nation has come to.

I'm done being nice. Next time I am going to jail. And I will take it to the nth degree. Taking photos of publicly visible buildings is not illegal, even if bush HAS taken away most of our freedoms.

Rhonda · 2 years ago

I have encountered a Bexar County Sheriff officer once, it was not a pleasant experience, he was very rude, and I was doing nothing wrong. I hate to judge based on just one sheriff's deputy, but by the sounds of your experience, I feel safer judging.

Scary!

HTC · 2 years ago

Typical. Honestly, it's typical. I've had several similar experiences. You are certainly not alone.

LH · 1 year ago

Texas Justice

I am a 53 yr old disabled widow and a few months ago I was drug from my home and arrested for "terrorist threats" when a man I had rented a room in my home called the sheriff on me -he had assaulted me and harassed me all day and had been refusing to pay the rent.. this cop had told me on a prior incident -(I tried to make a thieft report - for insurance purposes) 5 times I called them to try and get them to take the report correctly-list the things stolen and they would not write a list. After the 5th attempt I was told if I called them one more time I as going to jail .

This same sheriff cop came out the night this renter called stating I threatened him ..actually he threatened me that he would get his guys and break my door down and F me up should I put his things on the curb and change the locks, that was the only threat I made...this cop says I remember you then arrested me for terrorist threats and stated he heard me say I will kill you to this renter(.Flat outright lie) I was denied my purse and keys , my medications, my money, identification, and taken to jail, when asked why I was being arrested, he told me "whatever I can think of" and "whatever I say".
I was finally let out of jail at 4am in dowtown san antonio in a very bad area, crippled and penniless, was approached by a man who I can't even repeat what he said to me but I was terrified. I has No ID , no keys to get in my home. I did manage to get to a phone and call a cab. upon arrival at my house I am locked out, luckily my other renter was home at this time and let me in but my money had been stolen from my wallet (300 dollars) , luckily the cabdriver took my debit card. Total of damage was 500 -200 for bail and the 300 he stole , not to mention that later that month this same cop gave the renter permission to break down my front door. 150 dollars plus damage to the wall.
Now I have to go to court and I plead not guilty and was told by the judge this will cost the state a lot of money and time to try this case and that if I lose, he will be giving out the punishment and I will have to pay all court costs plus a 6 month jail sentence. (I personally took this as a terrorist threat) I was then told I must sign a paper acknowledging he had warned me of the consequences of pleading not guilty. Can you even believe this? I feel I am being railroaded into paying some probation fines, court fees etc.. to keep their little so called justice system running. As for the court apointed attorney haha. Every time I try to speak I am blown off--gotta go gotta go can't talk. I am sure it is to this court appointed attorneys benifit and DA's benifit to have some kangaroo hearing in order to rob a poor disabled widow of her meagerly social security checks. By the way this renter had assualted me that morning and when I went to file assualt charges on him once let out of jail I was informed the guy is currently on probation for an assualt charge. I was also told I cannot file a protective order against him because it would be a cnflict of interest to the DA to protect me and also prosecute me at the same time. Can you believe this?


I have called internal affairs wanting to file a complaint and have lie detector tests done.

PAPA · 1 year ago

The Judges, DAs, Attorney's all take an "OATH" to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America, when these justice gurus make threats that this is going to happen if you do not plead guilty is totally against the Constitution of the United States of America, Bill of Rights. Its that every person is entitled to a jury of their peers to have a trial, also it states that the charges are to be seen by 2 or more witnesses. Maybe an impeachment action needs to be started against this Judge for not uphold the "OATH" he took and THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICAN and THE Bill of Rights. This is exactly why our prisons are overflowing costing the Voting Taxpaying Citizens of this Country over $60 BILLLION Dollars a year to keep the prison going...sure is a high price for slavery when the majority of these people could be sent back to their own countries because they are illegals and came into this country illegals, could be the Mentally Ill and Physically disabled in proper hospitals to be care for instead of tortured, the many innocent people can be set free, then the people with bipolar, manic depression, addiction problems could go to treatment centers. I am thinking $60,000,000,000,0000.00 Billion dollars could go a long way in helping people with trouble lives and free this Taxpayers from all the stress, overworked, high fuel prices, cost of food, where they could make a living......prisons were started for Violent Criminals, murders, rapist, serial killers, child raptist....not for misdemeanor actions like no driver licenses, traffic violation, no insurance, etc....go for the Lie Detector Request, get the liars have to start being honest or they are going to prison....just my opinion and known facts....PAPA

xxx · 1 year ago

My cousin was a cop in San Antonio for aprrox. 5 yrs. He was fired twice for repeatedly beating people up real bad and regularly. After he was fired the 2nd time he moved to Houston and became a cop. After 5 yrs. he was finally fired in Houston because he kept beating up inmates real bad, male and female both, and also because too many homeless bodies were being found in the bayou, always reported in the media as wino's that drowned while bathing. Anyone growing up in Houston could recall this, dead drunks in the bayou - frequently.
xxx

jhb · 1 year ago

Actually, in Texas it is illegal to not show ID so it is a good thing you did (not illegal to not show I should say- but illegal to not truthfully identify yourself with some form of identification to an officer who is asking a lawful order- in which case this was). However, I'm on your side- I'm actually going to take more pictures of this place tomorrow. Doing some "antenna research," I'll say.

BossHogg · 4 months ago

Well isn't that just wonderful homeland sekurrrity work, Barney Fife informing people he deems suspicious exactly which buildings might be sensitive targets, blabbing what's done inside the buildings? And now, thanks to a blog, darsh, even the AYErabs can find out.

Donut prize, big time.