1) Anonymous: ED:NOS is a dangerous eating disorder. I've known several women who found their way into a hospital or DIED as a result of their ED:NOS. You don't have to be clinically underweight or constantly restricting/binging and purging to do physical & possibly fatal damage to your body. Never mind the fact that they suffer mentally, just as much as bulimics and anorexics do. I'm sick of this "my eating disorder is better than yours!" cock-flailing contest.
2) I actually agree with what this article is saying -- crash-dieting, however unhealthy it is, is NOT the same as anorexia. Eating a salad for lunch and refusing treats doesn't make someone anorexic. The main difference is that dieters are in control of what they eat, while anorexics are unable to control their fear of food.
And this is coming from someone with an eating disorder.
Chris Abraham
· 3 years ago
"Self-control," "self-denial," and "self-discipline" are awful for selling Big Macs and Whoppers, to tell you the truth.
Janna
· 3 years ago
You sound as if you are suffering from Stockholm syndrome! Is a gaggle of your models holding you hostage? ;)
I have to think awhile about what you are saying.
Doc
· 3 years ago
Anorexia nervosa affects 0.1 - 1% of women, about the rate of schizophrenia, and sub-syndromal anorexia nervosa affects many more women. Anorexia has the highest mortality of any psychiatric illness - you are nine times more likely to die if you have anorexia that one of your age-matched peers. There is, furthermore, good evidence that anorexia - or something very like it - has been present in most cultures for a thousand years. While there is clearly a cultural influence seen in the increase of rates of anorexia with the increasing popularity of the "thin ideal," anorexia is a mental illness, not a lifestyle choice. There is lots of evidence supporting this, including some new genetics work, but the most compelling evidence comes from talking to anorexic persons themselves. Their thinking is distorted, as are their perceptions of their own bodies, and the starvation, unfortunately, makes that worse.
I agree with you on two points - first, obesity kills many more people than anorexia nervosa, and second, that there is often a kind of prurient, hysterical tone to reporting on eating disorders. But these two facts have little to do with one another, I believe. After all, the obesity epidemic is a more recent phenomenon than the increasing rates of anorexia in the US, but by your argument you would have expected rates of anorexia to increase in response to the obesity epidemic. Rates of eating disorders began to increase immediately following WWII, but the trends in obesity have spiked more recently.
Our biology, evolving as it did in times of near constant food deprivation, is biased toward a "positive energy balance," i.e., if it's around, EAT IT. That does not mean that there is no role for self-control, self-discipline, and restraint, as Chris Abraham suggests above, on the contrary, they become more important. It may be, though, that we will have to regulate our way out of the obesity epidemic to some extent, and use marketing campaigns to stigmatize overeating.
Thanks for the interesting post.
S
· 3 years ago
Hun, I'll try to forget your personal predilections for a sec and just address your points. ;)
Yes! There's lots of hysterics about "anorexia" and it is fatness that's killing us.
Chris Abraham
· 3 years ago
When is obesity going to become a "psychiatric illness?" When is compulsive eating as seen in OA going to get into "the book:" DSM-IV?
Anthony Citrano
· 3 years ago
Doc -
Thanks; thoughtful and informed thoughts... I am confused by how you think my argument would be supported by increasing rates of anorexia in "response to" obesity. I don't mean to imply that women who exhibit anorexic behaviors so do in response to overweight peers. Maybe I implied that, but I didn't mean to.
I don't think (most) anorexia is a response to obesity. I do think the faux-shock-outrage of an increasingly overweight population might be a psychoprotective response to those who exert the increasingly rare ability to stay slim. Hell, I admire a girl who can say no to a bowl of ice cream ... because usually, I can't.
And, most things our culture labels as anorexic or anorexia are not.
Well put, also, on the evolutionary psychology aspect ...
Doc
· 3 years ago
Chris -
You raise an important question, to my mind, about when a problematic behavior becomes a "psychiatric illness." Most people, for example, do not take their meds - psychiatric or otherwise - properly. I can't tell you the number of patients I took care of as an intern who suffered relapses of their congestive heart failure because they did something ordinary (ate crabs and beer on a summer afternoon in Baltimore - you could be ostracized for not joining in - the salt and fluid load would stress their weakened hearts, and the ensuing fluid buildup in the lungs could be life-threatening). Because they have a behavior problem, do they have a psychiatric problem? Another good example is criminal behavior. There are criminals - many - diagnosable with sociopathic personality (anti-social personality disorder, to be precise), but many criminals do not have ASPD and are simply making bad choices, over and over again.
That being said, Binge Eating Disorder (BED) is in this version of the DSM (hardly "The Book" - don't get me started on that rant) under the category "Eating Disorder Not Otherwise Specified". To have BED, you have to binge eat twice per week, but binge eating is defined as eating 1) a large amount of food and 2) feeling out of control. I believe it's this pairing of a behavior and a psychological abnormality (usually some kind of distress) that distinguishes a psychiatric illness from an otherwise problem behavior. Turns out about 30% of the morbidly obese meet criteria for BED, but this means about 70% don't. What this looks like in real life is a 300 lb guy who begins a binge on three or four boxes of fish and chips, and *halfway through* begins to weep, but keeps going anyway.
So, should compulsive overeating that is not binge eating be called psychiatric? I don't know - it'd be interesting to know what fraction of OA participants had BED - bet it's high, but I could be wrong. I'll look into it.
Anthony -
Well, as the witch said, it's a fair cop - I was arguing a bit a of a straw man, in retrospect. Certainly we are seeing more and more patients with eating disorders, including anorexia, who *were* obese and then underwent gastric bypass surgery to lose weight, and then their latent fear of fatness is unleashed, and they can't stop losing weight. Very interesting, and very sad.
WRT your comment that most things labeled anorexic are not, there is interesting data from the Mayo Clinic looking at "occult eating disorders" [which means not identified by a physician as such, not "accompanied by pagan ritual"] that suggests, much like alcoholism, that most patients with eating disorders never come to clinical attention at all. Most alcoholics never go to AA, never seek individual treatment or do rehab, etc. I've met a lot of women who tell me about their "flirtation" with eating disorders in college, that their sister is still not quite right about food, etc. And again, I think the thing that these folks recognize (like the male medical students I run into who tell me about their times on the wrestling team) is the psychological burden that is reinforced by the behavior. They recognized that something in their attitude is no longer unthinking, but willfully perverse, and unlike them at their baseline. How many people do you know from college who made a conscious choice to cut down on their drinking some time before they graduated? Many, I would guess. So, do all those folks have alcoholism? No, but for all the people that go ahead and stop, there are those whose behaviors spiral out of control.
Finally, over at PostSecret this week are a couple of germain postcards - one showing a bowl of mac and cheese "this is my drug", and one "ever since you told me I was fat I've used your toothbrush to make me vomit".
Feh - are there consequences for unrestrained blog commenting? Binge Blogging Disorder, anyone?
Cheerfully -
lera
· 3 years ago
"So, please, ladies - the girl who has the body the rest of you wish you had is not anorexic. The girl who delicately refuses the eighteen-ounce wedge of deep-fried cheesecake the rest of you dive into after dinner is not anorexic. The girl who is obsessed with fitting back into those size 1 jeans is not anorexic. Sheâs just thinner than you, knows how to say no to herself, and it makes you jealous."
-- AMEN!
Dude
· 3 years ago
Do you know what a size 1 looks like???
Kasey
· 3 years ago
As a woman with an eating disorder, I have to point out how intrinsically flawed your misunderstanding of anorexia is.
1. Most people with EDs do not die from being too thin. They'll die from organ failure, sometimes years after recovery.
2. Liking food (aka being a 'food slut') or drinking alcohol, the two xanga community topics mentioned, are no big deal. When you develop a compulsive eating disorder or alcoholism, you are taking those to actions to extremity. Anorexia is an extreme action, based sometimes in weight but moreso in control.
3. Your examples of women who can simply "say no" to a piece of cheesecake show even more that you don't have a bloody clue. Eating only 500 calories a day can kill a person. Anorexia is not dieting. Period. Anorexia is a complicated mental health disorder that usually transcends the issue of weight and has more to do with society, control of the body, and mind-numbing perfection in everything.
There is no feasible way of documenting how many girls and women actually suffer from some sort of eating disorder because we are taught, in this day and age, to be perfect always, and anorexia is a weakness to be hidden. Many women control their weight to look "normal" while not having normal eating habits in the least. Anorexia affects every single type of woman, across all social, racial, and religious boundaries - I myself and a radical feminist dyke who everyfuckingday struggles to put food in my mouth and then not throw it up. I, like so many in different ways, was taught to succeed through my schooling, my extracurriculars, my job performance, and my appearance. The anorexia of today is about so much more than fitting into a size one, and until people wake up and realize it isn't just dieting too much, we'll never be able to show young girls and grown women alike that perfection is a construct that should not be maintained.
Anthony Citrano
· 3 years ago
Kasey - your comments show YOU don't have a "bloody clue" about what I wrote. You seem to be agreeing with me, yet in an oppositional tone.
I SAID that the person refusing the cheesecake is NOT anorexic - to support my point that those who are dieting or are practicing healthy self-denial are NOT anorexic (as so many chunky girls are wont to call them.)
Could it be possible that the misunderstanding is not mine?
Anonymous
· 3 years ago
It's interesting to me that this whole conversation, supposedly about Americans in general, has centered around the eating habits and the appearance of women in particular. I'm sure you didn't mean to say this, but it seems as if your main concern is having enough size 1 women to ogle, rather than health of the general population. As long as only women's bodies are the focus, women will have true eating disorders, whether they result in skinny women, or fat. Sure, you didn't mean to only discuss women, but all your examples were female. What does that mean?
By the way, being a size 1 is not just about being able to say no to cheesecake or being healthy- it's also about being born with a very small frame. Most women wouldn't fit a size 1 even if they were starving themselves.
And if she's "obsessed" with fitting into a size 1, she may very well have an eating disorder. She doesn't make me jealous. I could probably kick her ass in any physical test, and I don't have to waste my energy "obsessing" about the number on my clothing- I can spend my time thinking about more productive things. Of course, my 20-mile bike commute each day requires more than 500 calories. Although, if I only cut back, I might be able to fit into those size 1 jeans...
It's not anorexia that is an affront to our way of living, it's moderation and thoughtful consumption. A disease isn't a good cure for bad habits.
Anthony Citrano
· 3 years ago
While having enough size 1 women to ogle is not my *main* concern, it is certainly a concern. Fair enough.
The reason I used women as examples is because they were the focus of the story; and also, I never hear fat guys calling slim guys "anorexic". This is primarily an issue for women.
And you might be able to beat said size one girl in a physical competition, but I don't know what that teaches us.
To your last point, I'll say it again: anorexia *represents* an affront to our way of living. And a sensational affront at that. You give the average American too much credit. They are not shocked by anorexia because they understand the complex nuanced psychology of a true sufferer - that is, the masochistic goal of self-damage or self-destruction; they merely understand anorexia as undereating.
I'm also not suggesting it serves to cure bad habits, but I guess I am (now) suggesting that most Americans could stand to have their faces riveted shut for a while.
Liza
· 3 years ago
YES! Finally, a person with a mind! Thank you so much for this. I'm so sick of everybody saying that someone thin is anorexic! Just because someone isn't fat doesn't mean they are suffering from a disease.
laura
· 3 years ago
A recent study in the New York Times says a greatly reduced calorie intake (under 900 cals per day) has long time health benefits ( http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/05/health/05diet.html ). Whether you agree or not, it is blatantly obvious that the way people eat in America is unnatural. Human beings have evolved to live in a constant state of partial starvation because, back in the days of stones and arrows, no one was going to hunt down a mammoth with a big mac in their stomach. They needed some neuropeptide-Y motivation. Americans are just conditioned to eat insane amounts of food and to expect to eat insane amounts of food. You would be amazed at how little you can survive on and still be energetic and attractive... you just have to train your body out of its ludacrous American habits with a little discipline and self-control. Americans could use a bit of that and food, the most primal temptation to most, is a great place to start. Americans, stop bitching about other people being anorexic and take out your frustrations with your weight on a treadmill instead.
Anonymous
· 3 years ago
Yea, i mean come on. No one ever gave Ghandi shit.
Ampersand
· 3 years ago
And yet, the obesity "epidemic" has corresponded with longer average lifespans for Americans. We're fatter than ever, and living longer than ever. And while it's certainly true that obesity causes more deaths each year than anorexia, in terms of an individual sufferer's relative risk, anorexia is significantly more dangerous.
a 2001 study by the University of British Columbiaâs Department of Psychology of every American death for the most recently available five year period showed only 724 people with anorexia as a causal factor - 145 per year.
Could you please let me know the citation for that study? Thank you.
Anthony Citrano
· 3 years ago
We're living longer because our confiscatory tax policy is fueling our healthcare inflation, which is being spent on saving people from their own stupidity. Living longer does not mean we are healthier.
I don't understand what is so threatening to you or salacious about Williams' article. It seems like he is using a timely hook to do a public education piece on anorexia - what's so controversial about that? I don't think the article is suggesting that moderate or healthy eating is bad or that exercise should be avoided. I don't think he is championing excessive weight gain. No where does Williams say what these girls really ought to do is curl up on the couch with a gallon of Ben and Jerry's for a movie marathon. The article is not about obesity and that's OK. The article is drawing attention to some borderline and some extreme dieting tactics. I think you would be hard pressed to find one reputable dietician or physician that would approve a 500 calorie a day diet for an adolescent.
I completely agree with what I think is one of your underlying points which is that not every diet leads to eating disorders. Many eating disorders didn't start as a diet in the first place. For a lot of people with eating disorders, it isn't really about the food or their appearance. Food intake becomes a way to assert control in a situation where for any number of reasons the person feels powerless or out of control. It is a coping mechanism for dealing with everything and anything. The habit(s) though, be it restricting, binging, purging, compulsively exercising, abusing laxatives/diuretics, etc., become powerfully entrenched and even though it didn't start by being about food it ends up controlling their lives. But for other people, eating disorders have begun by a diet and whether it is a genetic predisposition, an addictive personality, or just crap luck, the diet initially healthy or not, warranted or not, becomes an addiction. The behaviors become more and more extreme. The weight loss becomes addictive. Whether it starts as a coping mechanism or as a diet is immaterial to your body. The extreme malnutrition and electrolyte imbalances that accompany eating disorders can cause major/permanent organ damage even in those who never become particularly low weight.
While implying that every diet leads to eating disorders is an unfortunate and inappropriate scare tactic, I don't think that is what Williams is doing. I think he is just creating a space for people to pause and reevaluate the choices they are making. Thankfully most people will never develop a DSM IV eating disorder but lots of people have disordered aspects to their eating or their thought processes around eating and I am always happy to see an article that inspires a little self-reflection on the topic.
Anthony Citrano
· 3 years ago
Since when is commenting on media-fueled hysteria an indication that I'm threatened by it? I just think we need to get our priorities straight.
I didn't imply that Alex was encouraging obesity. I used the article as a hook to discuss the greater issue that we're confronting as a society: that is, that we are a very fat people and we're much more afraid of anorexia than obesity, which makes zero sense.
A. Monkey
· 3 years ago
It is the zero sum logic of your argument that I don't get. Just because obesity is more common (and apparently more personally offensive to you) than anorexia doesn't make anorexia any less of a destructive or preventable disease or unworthy of an article
Anthony Citrano
· 3 years ago
Who said it was unworthy of an article? I think I'm going to buy a reading comp course for you and the other feministas.
anna
· 3 years ago
stumbled on your blog,just by chance,a good chance if i may add,i just read on and on and on...kudos,awesome work
Elizabeth
· 3 years ago
"Xanga's chief executive, John Hiler, is quoted in the Times article saying it is their corporate policy to delete any "pro anorexia" groups from the system."
A bit off topic, but John Hiler isn't doing a very good job. The following link takes you to a list of Xanga blogrings, the large majority of which are pro-anorexia/eating disorder:
I totally agree with you! In for two years I was 85 (I lost weight from being fat!)I'm short so it's not as bad as it seems. But anyways, I was skinny, not because I starved myself, I ate when I was hungry. If I was hungry every SINGLE minute I'd be saying to my dad "I'm hungry can we eat...when can we eat" whats for din...ect. Anyways with my running (7-8 fast miles a day-competitive runner) I was slim, and ALWAYS got called anorexic (of course then I went and got myself injured and gained 5 pounds...). My dad was VERY anti me being skinny and he would yell at me whenever I was on the treadmill or doing situps or any excersise. Then he'd put 4 brownies everyday in my lunch. But when I had been fat he would talk to my mom behind my back and get mad if anyone said anything. A lot of people were like that. People obsess over the skinny minis like me when they should be trying to help themselves become a healthy weight. Maybe I'm underweight. But if youre eating when youre hungry whats the deal? and notice the people who call slim people anorexic always either are fat or talk about themselves being fat!! the ones who are just plain worried about a true anorexic friend usually arent.
yeah. but good article..the one thing is that a 500 calorie diet would KILL most people. ive tried and i was constantly collapsing, i couldnt run at ALL because i was collapsing then too. kudos!!
anonymous ana
· 3 years ago
Yes, i am also an avid runner. I tried the 5 hundred calorie, 8 miles a day thing and it works for about a week and then you just cant go anymore, you just cant run. Its pretty wierd, you don't even really feel tired, you just cant go anymore and get light headed and stumble around with tunnel vision. Its not fun, but its not the end of the world. Id rather that than be an obese shit eating kentucky fried chicken in front of a tv all day... ultimatley they are both a sort of addiction and equally destructive, although, like "jessi" says, everyone likes to shit upon the skinny people. Jealousy? maybe. i personally think it is the violation of man's natural proclivity toward size-related hierarchy that causes the indigance to come from the fat... but only sticks and stones (well, maybe twigs and pebbles) can break my bones. Bring it on, fat people, ana's can take it. I cant wait till we really have a head-to-head war, just for pure hilarity.
Kristen
· 3 years ago
Hi, Anthony. Judging by the comments on this one, it seems you have again found a topic that is near and dear to some, while making a few others pretty uneasy. Maybe it is that some people just don't know enough about the disease, while others are just scared stupid by the word. There are many eating disorders that you could write about and draw many of these same reactions. Oh course, I joke that size 0 ladies really need to eat a burger--and I'll be the first to admit that its simply a way of coping with my own inability to refuse that big, juicy, fattening plate of joy (ha ha ha)--but I know enough about the disease not to automatically label someone as suffering from it because they are thin. I'd be thinner if I could eat exactly what I should and refrain from eating those things I shouldn't. It doesn't mean that I would be Anorexic if I did start eating the way I should and lost a lot of weight and became thin.
There's simply a lot more to Eating Disorders than many care to know. I could go on and on, making several points that I feel are valid, but what would be the sense? I don't believe my views on the subject will change one person's mind about it. I hope that your writing on the subject has inspired people to learn more about eating disorders. That is truly the first step toward an informed opinion and understanding of the subject. For those who choose to be ignorant they will be looked at as such.
Take care.
mt.
· 3 years ago
I am a female in my early twenties, 5'7" & I wear a size 6-8 depending on the brand of clothing. When I look down I can see my shoes, I go to gym 3 times a week, I eat one meal a day, & I guess I could lose those extra 5 pounds, but I like drinking beer too much.
So tell me, oh wise man, am I a big 'ol fatty fat ass?
mary j
· 3 years ago
no, skipping cheescake doesn't make someone anorexic, but saying "no to herself" does not a size 1 make. it works for rhetorical effect, but genetics has a lot more to do with it. i could say no myself for years and never get any smaller than a 3. *shrugs* i don't mind though.
Nisha
· 3 years ago
I just went through your article, and I felt it makes a fair few good points- namely, the one about all skinny people not being anorexic. I'm not skinny- 5'6" at 120-125 lb cannot be called that, but I eat to fuel myself- I have to, you won't live through law school otherwise- I wear what would probably be an American size 6-8, and I do eat the occasional dessert now and then (by which I mean, about twice a week). But my roomie is the same height as me, probably weighs about fifteen pounds less because she's tiny-boned (possibly a size 2), and she eats. Normal quantities. I've never known her to skip a meal if she's awake in time for it, and any doctor looking at the both of us would say we're ok for our age (20) and height- despite the obvious difference in size.
What I'm trying to say is, her being skinny and me not doesn't imply that either one of us is abnormal. If my once-a-week ice cream habit means I must weigh 125 pounds for the rest of my life, so be it. I'd resent it immensely if someone called my roommate anorexic or bulimic. But I also resent the assumption that ALL women who get fat get that way because they're greedy overeating pigs. I had major struggles with my own weight in my early teens, and even now have hips with a circumference (38 inches, if you must know)that's a good deal wider than those I see on girls around me. And my weight issues weren't through any lack of physical activity or dietary abstinence. Not all women who look like they weigh a bit more than Mary-Kate Olsen are that way because they couldn't say no to a Big Mac and a cheesecake after. If you want to look as tiny as that, you have to be born that way- and being a size 6 is perfectly ok. I agree with you about abstinence not being the same as anorexia, and there's nothing very wrong about wanting to fit into smaller jeans, but if it's gotten to the point where your weight dominates your life that's just plain bad. Even if you aren't anorexic.
I suppose a lot of your post as to be placed in the context of American society and its eating habits, which certainly sound unhealthy enough from what I hear (as you might guess, I am not American), and I can sympathise with the girl who refuses desserts because she doesn't want to get fat. I can sympathise with the girl who can eat like a human garbage disposal and not gain any weight (I know at least four of those). And I agree it's cruel to call perfectly healthy girls anorexic just to be able to say to yourself "she got that way by being sick, and I can't get that way because i'm not anorexic, and therefore there must be something wrong with her that there isn't with me." But it's no less cruel to tell normally-sized girls that they're fat simply because their ribs don't stick out.
Chris Abraham
· 3 years ago
I am amused. Why? Well, let's say that someone decided to eat 900 calories of french fries. I am looking at you, you "potato chip vegetarians." It requires a lot of thought and a lot of discipline to make that 900 calories-a-day diet actually work nutritionally. If you follow the Kelly Ripa "I can eat all the Altoids I want" diet then you will become sick. If you hoard your calories for one-sane-meal-a-day then you will become sick. If you don't make one of your major hobbies your care and feeding and your nutricional balance then you will get sick. As a comparison, if you eat one peanut as someone who is allergic, anaphylaxis. So, a rigorous 900 calories-a-day is possible but more realistically, we need to eat lots of different things -- most of it waste and fat and garbage -- in order to, without intent and forethought, keep ourselves out of nutritional debt, out of nutritional danger.
Just because you are a vegan doesn't mean you're healthy. And just because you're a feminist doesn't mean you're right. And just because you're sick doesn't mean you can't get well. And you just because you can't become a size 1 doesn't mean you shouldn't try to become as healthy as you can, gievn your genetics, socioeconomic level, activity levels, and current health.
Nisha
· 3 years ago
Quite simply put, it's one thing to tell a girl who's a US size 12 that she's fat. It's another thing to tell that to a size 6, who by most normal standards wouldn't be fat.
Diatom
· 3 years ago
I think you're trying to say that lean women are not necessarily anorexic women and shouldn't be thought as such. I hope that's what you're trying to say anyways.
Otherwise, that's a lot of equivocation with the word "anorexic" and "anorexia." Perception and reality indeed. It's a serious accusation, and anyone (men or women) should be considering how to help the victims of anorexia than blithely being jealous of them. Otherwise, "anorexic" becomes a term that means "enviable bodyshape" rather than "debilitating disease."
Nevertheless, I don't understand this "emblematic American appetite," isn't this perception perpetuated more by American males than by females? Actually, more by American restaurants who serve gigantic helpings of food that no one should feel the obligation to finish. I question the thought that people continue to eat when they're full - how does this even make sense, unless it's another mental illness-- and the inherent enviability of women (or people) who would rather be constantly hungry.
It's very well to refuse cheesecake because you're full, or just not interested in cheesecake as part of your diet, these are healthy signs-- cheesecake's really a very artery clogging indulgence-- and another to refuse to cheesecake because you like feeling hungry, and was considering your bodyweight is somehow better served by swallowing air than substance, that is not a healthy sign.
Lauren
· 3 years ago
"The girl who is obsessed with fitting back into those size 1 jeans is not anorexic. Sheâs just thinner than you, knows how to say no to herself, and it makes you jealous."?? Are you kidding me? Even if she isn't "anorexic", simply being "obsessed" with fitting into those jeans is not healthy. And I think that you really need to realize that many women do lead a very healthy lifestyle without fitting into a size 1- how many women athletes do you know that are a size 1? Of course, we can't say that it's "okay" to be obese, but you should never make it seem like any girl wearing a size 8 is unhealthy. We have to keep in mind that our bodies are built differently, so some naturally hold more fat, simply because of genetics. So many thin girls I know don't get their period, nor can they run a mile. Our top priority is our health, not size.
The only word I can think of to describe your outlook on this issue is ignorant.
trixx44
· 3 years ago
There are many reactions here from the size 6's, and not the size 12's. Although I fall toward the larger end of the spectrum, I still agree strongly with you on many points. Although I know I cannot blame my parents for my weight problems, I do acknowledge that I was taught poor "food skills". I grew up fat, and have spent years training myself to eat properly.
Personally, I find myself struggling with the biggie-size mentality. I find it difficult to restrain myself while everyone else indulges to the max. I have learned, but it has taken me a long time to see that I don't have to eat that cheesecake just because my husband/friend/coworker does.
When you live in a part of the US known for it's "pear-shaped people" it can be difficult to see that the norm is not always the best.
Sarah
· 3 years ago
I wonder if this thread would have progressed differently if you had used Size 4 (rather than Size 1) as your example.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything that you wrote. I'd venture to suggest that anyone who disagrees with you is probably in the above-mentioned 2/3 of the population, and therefore offended by your statements.
We NEED far far far less food than we actually consume. We should not eat dairy, wheat, sugar or processed foods, yet these are the dietary staples of most North Americans. People are obviously ill-informed about nutrition, and feel that deprivation is some sort of a disease, when it's actually one of the best ways to maintain vitality and overall good health.
Anthony Citrano
· 3 years ago
Oh Sarah - you are so right. I regret the size 1 comment, it diluted my point.
Anonymous
· 3 years ago
I agree with most of your points and think a lot of commenters may have misunderstood them. I like the Drug War comparison in particular.
I wear a 0 or 00. I am not sickly and I eat 3 (or more!) meals a day. In response to an above comment -- I did better on physical fitness tests than anyone in my class (junior year of college). Physically able people come in a variety of sizes. Every single day people in my school and other aspects of my life have something obnoxious to say about what I eat or how my body looks. Maybe I am something of an anomaly, but you won't find me walking around making snide remarks to every overweight person I see.
Erin
· 3 years ago
I have to say that as another size 0 girl I have had to put up with a lot of the "you're anorexic" remarks. I hit puberty and went from a slightly chubby girl to very thin without changing my eating habits at all. I'm 21 years old, 5'7" and weigh 103 lbs, and have a vegetarian lifestyle. I was a competitive rower for 7 years and a dancer for 16. I am more healthy than anyone else I know, but can't go to a single meal without being told to eat more. The problem is with the nutritional education of most "Americans," who grow up being told to eat food that is more and more unhealthy. I think the real thing to worry about is the astounding rate of deaths related to obesity, and the rising rates of obesity in children. I have an 11 year old cousin that makes me look like I am a twig. I am lucky to have received my father's genes that lean toward a lanky body, where my sister received my mother's and is overweight. I also have to say that I agree that the problem of society condemning all thin girls as anorexic is ridiculous...thin males would have to be so as well, and seemingly are ignored. However, I also must recognize that their are real people out there with anorexia that do need medical help. Anorexia can be so extreme that the diagnosed will look in the mirror and no longer see themselves, but a grotesque and overweight version. They will do anything, from diet pills to laxatives and worse to lose the weight, at personal risk. I've seen the result of "real" anorexia; those who are more like skeletons with skin over the bones of their bodies. They certainly should not be ignored to starve to death, because in the end the human body will eat itself for fuel...until nothing is left. Ironically, however, I also feel the pressure of society. I look in the mirror and recognize the need to tone or lose weight in an area that to someone much larger than me would seem ridiculous. It's all about how you process thse thoughts. I still believe I have the most unnatractive thighs on the east coast. As long as women can see inner beauty and stay healthy, and realize that if everyone looked the same life would be utterly boring, then I think they should be fine with their body shapes and sizes. My sister is a size 14 and takes a beautiful picture because she is comfortable with herself. I rarely take one I like. I could likely continue, but will end this here. This issue has too many sensitive topics, and both sides hold relevant arguments.
Anonymous
· 3 years ago
Well well well you sure touched a nerve here didn't you? Good for you for your thought-provoking article. As a woman often accused of being "too thin" I agree completely with your sentiments with the exception of the 500 calorie comment-I realize that was not to be taken literally but just to repeat what has been said before-that is not a safe or happy place to be. It can cause strange things like passing out while riding a bicycle.
I saw a spread in Adbusters a few years ago that had a picture of famine victims with a caption "dying of failure" and then a picture of fat kids chowing down at McDonalds with the caption "dying of success" I often think of that spread when looking at those magazines insisting all thin stars are "dying"
nelle
· 3 years ago
i loove portia de rossi when she was as anorexic as 1 can be!!
Anonymous
· 3 years ago
while i agree with some of your points, the fact still stands that anorexia is a disease, and a very damaging one at that.
in fact, a 500 calorie diet will do a great deal of harm.
Randi
· 2 years ago
Enjoyed your article and all this discussion. It's very weird how we get such hype about anorexia, but overeating (a much greater danger) gets nowhere near the "scare factor."
ANONYMOUS
· 2 years ago
just so you know - a size 1 is not "normal" for everyone - it actually is not normal for most -- be ware of the societal influences that deem a size 1 as "normal"
Kj
· 2 years ago
What's being talked about isn't anorexia. Control is not anorexia; people can control what they eat and work out and try to look their best and that does not mean they're anorexic. Anorexia is obsession, is looking in the mirror and always seeing fat to lose even if your body belongs in a Halloween funhouse. If you can see how eating oneself into obesity is a problem, then you can see that obsessing about calories to the point of near death is also a problem. I'm not downplaying obesity, I do believe it's become a huge problem and you're right in that it doesn't get as much attention... The way you said what you did is just the issue because people dont see their obsession, they see their control; by supporting those who "control" their food intake to that point, instead of supporting those who are in great shape because they work off more calories then they eat daily to look their best, is just perpetuating the "healthy isn't better skinny is better" standard. It's the same as if obese people who visit a website see the message "Be happy while you're living, for you're a long time dead" and take that to mean that it's okay to devour everything they can since they're as much of a walking corpse as the people excercising a little too much of your "control".
alimentary
· 2 years ago
it seems that one definition you suggest for anorexia is "self-denial and restraint." i think this is what another commenter was criticizing because anorexia is neither. for one thing, self-denial and restraint are both very vague concepts -- at least the way they are used in the article. denying one's "self" (whatever that is)? or denying the self something? and restraint is too wide. restraining what? according to what kind of measure or standard? anorexia has been framed as a "pathology" about a century ago i think, although arguably the phenomenon dates back much earlier. it has been asociated mostly with women but there are cases of male anorexia as well. there is a turn of the century novel by knut hamsun called "hunger" where a male character deals with what i would call a form of anorexia. having to do more with controlling the urge to eat / rebelling against "nature"/ than with body image. consider also the "hunger artist," a phenomenon of the turn of the century again. and also a predominantly male figure. some people gave the example of gandhi who fasted a lot, and also used the hunger strike as a political strategy. hunger strike is not practiced as a form of political resistance in the u.s. so much, but it is frequently used in other places. more often than not, when you are imprisoned and when there is nothing else you can fight with. i, like a couple others, liken anorexia to hunger strike. it is a form of resistance --to that impossible bodily ideal by going so beyond that ideal such that the ideal itself is parodied-- which looks deceptively like giving in. this is not to encourage anorexia-- but to de-pathologize it. it is not those who become anorexic who are "sick," but the form of society that pushes someone to that limit. there _is_ a body ideal marketed in the mainstream that the bodies of many of us do not fit. (this creates a tremendous amount of self-hatred and fat hatred.) and this body ideal changes. it is not static. for this decade it might be size 0 in the u.s.. but half a century earlier, marlyn monroe was the ideal and she was, according to a website on fat pride i surfed today, a size 16. perceptions of what is considered beautiful, healthy or acceptable are not only in constant flux but relative. they also change from one place to another. i am something like size 11 by u.s. standards (i think). so according to some, i am overweight. according to BMI i am "normal." according to some i am voluptuous. according to my family and my lover i am perfect. according to me i am alright. health.. fitness.. similarly these are also culturally-determined constructs. and i am really at a loss whether to even define people over 400 pounds "obese" or "abnormal." ultimately it is about whether you feel at peace with where you are, whether or not it fits within a medical or cultural system of belief. consider this webpage "for people who do not apologize for their size" : http://www.fatso.com/
alimentary
· 2 years ago
it seems that one definition you suggest for anorexia is "self-denial and restraint." i think this is what another commenter was criticizing because anorexia is neither. for one thing, self-denial and restraint are both very vague concepts -- at least the way they are used in the article. denying one's "self" (whatever that is)? or denying the self something? and restraint is too wide. restraining what? according to what kind of measure or standard? anorexia has been framed as a "pathology" about a century ago i think, although arguably the phenomenon dates back much earlier. it has been asociated mostly with women but there are cases of male anorexia as well. there is a turn of the century novel by knut hamsun called "hunger" where a male character deals with what i would call a form of anorexia. having to do more with controlling the urge to eat / rebelling against "nature"/ than with body image. consider also the "hunger artist," a phenomenon of the turn of the century again. and also a predominantly male figure. some people gave the example of gandhi who fasted a lot, and also used the hunger strike as a political strategy. hunger strike is not practiced as a form of political resistance in the u.s. so much, but it is frequently used in other places. more often than not, when you are imprisoned and when there is nothing else you can fight with. i, like a couple others, liken anorexia to hunger strike. it is a form of resistance --to that impossible bodily ideal by going so beyond that ideal such that the ideal itself is parodied-- which looks deceptively like giving in. this is not to encourage anorexia-- but to de-pathologize it. it is not those who become anorexic who are "sick," but the form of society that pushes someone to that limit. there _is_ a body ideal marketed in the mainstream that the bodies of many of us do not fit. (this creates a tremendous amount of self-hatred and fat hatred.) and this body ideal changes. it is not static. for this decade it might be size 0 in the u.s.. but half a century earlier, marlyn monroe was the ideal and she was, according to a website on fat pride i surfed today, a size 16. perceptions of what is considered beautiful, healthy or acceptable are not only in constant flux but relative. they also change from one place to another. i am something like size 11 by u.s. standards (i think). so according to some, i am overweight. according to BMI i am "normal." according to some i am voluptuous. according to my family and my lover i am perfect. according to me i am alright. health.. fitness.. similarly these are also culturally-determined constructs. and i am really at a loss whether to even define people over 400 pounds "obese" or "abnormal." ultimately it is about whether you feel at peace with where you are, whether or not it fits within a medical or cultural system of belief. consider this webpage "for people who do not apologize for their size" : http://www.fatso.com/
Michael
· 2 years ago
1. Being slightly underweight is one of the most powerful factors that longetivity studies say correlates to a long life. 2. Almost all of the health risks when it comes to eating are on the side of overreating.
Jenna
· 2 years ago
Please stop anorexia and bulimia !!!
Lisa
· 2 years ago
I am ana becuase i was sexually abused, not becuase i want to fit into size one jeans. (oh, and for the record, it's size 0 or below, size 1 is for fat girls now).
PrincessAmie
· 2 years ago
"So, please, ladies - the girl who has the body the rest of you wish you had is not anorexic. The girl who delicately refuses the eighteen-ounce wedge of deep-fried cheesecake the rest of you dive into after dinner is not anorexic. The girl who is obsessed with fitting back into those size 1 jeans is not anorexic. She’s just thinner than you, knows how to say no to herself, and it makes you jealous"
Obviously you are un educated on the subject of anorexia else you wouldnt say that a girl who is obsessing about fitting into a size 1 pair of jeans isnt anorexic or suffering from anorexia. You are an idiot... get educated or shut up!
"And you might be able to beat said size one girl in a physical competition, but I don’t know what that teaches us."
You don't know? Well, think it through then, since you're such a brilliant philosopher: this example teaches us that being strong and robust is better than starving yourself into weakness, to take pride in your body rather than hating it, and that size does not always indicate health.
And your admission that you have a preference for thinner women puts this article into the opinion section and not news reporter. Why not just say you prefer thin frames and leave the anorexics and other ED-sufferers out of it? And why don't you just come out and say that American overconsumption is bad instead of bashing on people with food issues?
Criticism and snobbery won't solve the obesity issue; if anything, it will make those who aren't a size 0 a lot more defiant. Have you heard of the Fat Acceptance movement? (And no, it's not the same as the food slut club.) While I understand that obesity and overweight can create health issues, I also know that fat people should be treated with respect as human beings and are not symbols of some "emblematic American appetite."
And having lived on 500 calorie diets myself, I can tell you they are unhealthy and make you miserable. Just because you can say no to a bowl of ice cream does not make you morally superior.
Amy
· 2 years ago
"My personal offhand estimate had been that we might lose about 100 Americans annually to anorexia. My research this morning showed that I was not far off - a 2001 study by the University of British Columbia’s Department of Psychology of every American death for the most recently available five year period showed only 724 people with anorexia as a causal factor - 145 per year."
Oh, true, true, good sir. Your estimate was not far off, give or take 45 lives that are lost each year because of ignorance like yours. Give or take all of the people you must have affected so badly because of your biggoted article. You are a self righteous turd, if I do say so myself. If you have daughters, is this what you tell them?
"and that’s far more dangerous than any 500 calorie-a-day diet could ever be."
Try a two hundred calorie diet! Try not being able to eat a bite of bread without having a near panic attack. You cannot morph all eating disorders into one big issue and shove it aside calling it "Intellectually puddle deep" in fact, I would consider you as such.
Cancer does not affect every single American citizen either, it is not as huge of a problem as obesity is either, does that mean you are going to write an article about ignoring their fight also?
My issues with anorexia ARE about control, they DO have to do with me not eating the cheesecake served after dinner, also not eating dinner at all when it comes down to it. I pity you and your ignorance to this issue, I have to say that though not every girl I know is dying from starvation, every girl I know has at one time considered it. Every girl I know is self concious. Every girl I know could be driven to do something stupid because of your words. Every. Single. One. What I have to say to you is this: I AM the girl who is obsessed with fitting into my size zero jeans. I AM the girl who others think is thin but I can't see it. I AM dying.
But I'm sure, that's less than a dent in your all knowing radar, isn't it? Thank you for firing me up, I needed a way to let out my stress today.
No love, Amy
Amy
· 2 years ago
p.s.
I urge you to look at this and realize that it is going on to way more than 1% of America, and can also end in death. EDNOS (Eating Disorder Not Specified) Which includes those girls who are trying to fit into their bikinis and the ones who are "just jealous" of the girl who wears a size one or whatever.
As somebody who has suffered from anorexia nervosa and had a BMI of 14, I can say that I FULLY agree with this article.
Wow. Thanks for writing it. There are so many people out there who think that they suffer from an eating disorder, when they really do not.
Anonymous
· 2 years ago
And Amy -- EDNOS is not a dangerous eating disorder, unless it progresses into anorexia or bulimia.
Anonymous
· 2 years ago
Also, Amy, the author even said that they weren't discussing people who are actually anorexic. I don't understand why you are getting so worked up over it.
PrincessAmie
· 2 years ago
anonymous
For someone who had anorexia you arent very bright else you would know that anorexia nervosa isnt just about the physical side but also the mental processes so i disagree with you when you say EDNOS isnt a dangerous eating disorder! You can be at a healthy weight but be dangerously sick! You can be underweight but still be considered healthy. People with EDNOS are suffering from the same as people with anorexia and bulimia but they may not meet one requirements for diagnoses. A person that eats 3 meals a day who wouldnt fit into anorexia or bulimia but who takes laxatives every day is doing dangerous stuff to her/his body... I have been disagnosed with an eating disorder, but it doesnt make me an expert but i do know that it isnt about what i do or dont look like because it is about so much more than that. so i completely disagree with your uneducated statement.
Lara
· 2 years ago
There are eating disorders related to obesity such as the binge disorder. You are being very ignorant in your view of anorexia, its not all about being thin. People are anorexic for personal issues such as sexual abuse, parental fighting, feeling lonely or unaccepted, ect. I am anorexic and people like you make me sick. You have never felt the pain we feel everyday, and its more than just hunger pains, its emotional and mental pain. You have no place to judge us.
Now I agree on the point where all these wannabe anorexics are looking for attention, but not all of us are like that. There is nothing glamorous about throwing up your food, and passing out. Thats just stupid.
CurseOfCassandra
· 1 year ago
Firstly, I believe that the inherent flaw in your argument lies in the fact that anorexia and obesity have the same root cause within our culture: a consumer ethos that does not allow moderation in anything. While the girl who is concerned with fitting into size 1 jeans may not be anorexic, she is almost undoubtedly fixing an unhealthy amount of attention on being thin--probably underweight, as the waist size of a size 1 is that of the average 10-year-old girl (who, incidentally, is much more likely to already be on a diet than girls of previous generations). If you truly want to see societal change that will lead to less obesity, point your finger at marketing--I'm sure that some of the same companies whose ads convince women that being a size 1 in expensive designer jeans is more important than health and nutrition also are plunking coupons for big, high-fructose-corn-syrup filled burgers and fries in your daily paper. Without obesity, how would the diet industry be funded? Consumerism is at the root of both extremes. Eating disorders have the highest fatality rate of any psychological disorder, and trivializing them, no matter what the cause or purpose of doing so, is far more shameful than being obese.
FormerlyObeseNotGoinBack
· 1 year ago
AMEN!!
With over population and all, can't some ppl learn NOT 2 eat soooo much? There's only so much of it 2 go around.
anon
· 1 year ago
If anybody is still reading this post or the comments. It seems a lot of people are missing some of the points of the article.
1. This article isn't talking about individuals suffering from anorexia or bulimia, rather, people who are naturally thin or have a healthy understanding of self-control when it comes to diet and exercise. Commenters who are equating self-control to anorexia is taking it to the extreme. It's not so black and white, starvation or binging.
2. The whole size 1 thing - granted it might have worked if the author had used a more common size. But the point is that everyone has a size they're striving for regardless if that is size 1, 6, 14, etc. Nobody should be continuously buying larger sizes due to expanding waist, unless you are overeating and continuously gaining weight.
3. Last point, a huge stickler for me is that personally I have a small frame and hasnt gained much weight (maybe 1-3 lbs) since high school. I'm 30. But this is a natural state for me for me. However, people (jealous, concerned, hateful, etc) would make snide comments regarding my weight all the time. As one commenter pointed out, I don't and can't make comments to people who are obese because that would be considered rude to to cultural norms (as this article is emphasizing) and yet calling me names is okay? This point seems to be largely ignored by the commenters who are criticizing this article.
I think making insincere/critical comments to people of all weights is rude and inconsiderate. Calling someone a fat slob or skeletor are both insulting. If someone truly has a eating disorder on either spectrum, there's a better way to approach them.
All Comments
1) Anonymous: ED:NOS is a dangerous eating disorder. I've known several women who found their way into a hospital or DIED as a result of their ED:NOS. You don't have to be clinically underweight or constantly restricting/binging and purging to do physical & possibly fatal damage to your body. Never mind the fact that they suffer mentally, just as much as bulimics and anorexics do. I'm sick of this "my eating disorder is better than yours!" cock-flailing contest.
2) I actually agree with what this article is saying -- crash-dieting, however unhealthy it is, is NOT the same as anorexia. Eating a salad for lunch and refusing treats doesn't make someone anorexic. The main difference is that dieters are in control of what they eat, while anorexics are unable to control their fear of food.
And this is coming from someone with an eating disorder.
I have to think awhile about what you are saying.
I agree with you on two points - first, obesity kills many more people than anorexia nervosa, and second, that there is often a kind of prurient, hysterical tone to reporting on eating disorders. But these two facts have little to do with one another, I believe. After all, the obesity epidemic is a more recent phenomenon than the increasing rates of anorexia in the US, but by your argument you would have expected rates of anorexia to increase in response to the obesity epidemic. Rates of eating disorders began to increase immediately following WWII, but the trends in obesity have spiked more recently.
Our biology, evolving as it did in times of near constant food deprivation, is biased toward a "positive energy balance," i.e., if it's around, EAT IT. That does not mean that there is no role for self-control, self-discipline, and restraint, as Chris Abraham suggests above, on the contrary, they become more important. It may be, though, that we will have to regulate our way out of the obesity epidemic to some extent, and use marketing campaigns to stigmatize overeating.
Thanks for the interesting post.
Yes! There's lots of hysterics about "anorexia" and it is fatness that's killing us.
Thanks; thoughtful and informed thoughts... I am confused by how you think my argument would be supported by increasing rates of anorexia in "response to" obesity. I don't mean to imply that women who exhibit anorexic behaviors so do in response to overweight peers. Maybe I implied that, but I didn't mean to.
I don't think (most) anorexia is a response to obesity. I do think the faux-shock-outrage of an increasingly overweight population might be a psychoprotective response to those who exert the increasingly rare ability to stay slim. Hell, I admire a girl who can say no to a bowl of ice cream ... because usually, I can't.
And, most things our culture labels as anorexic or anorexia are not.
Well put, also, on the evolutionary psychology aspect ...
You raise an important question, to my mind, about when a problematic behavior becomes a "psychiatric illness." Most people, for example, do not take their meds - psychiatric or otherwise - properly. I can't tell you the number of patients I took care of as an intern who suffered relapses of their congestive heart failure because they did something ordinary (ate crabs and beer on a summer afternoon in Baltimore - you could be ostracized for not joining in - the salt and fluid load would stress their weakened hearts, and the ensuing fluid buildup in the lungs could be life-threatening). Because they have a behavior problem, do they have a psychiatric problem? Another good example is criminal behavior. There are criminals - many - diagnosable with sociopathic personality (anti-social personality disorder, to be precise), but many criminals do not have ASPD and are simply making bad choices, over and over again.
That being said, Binge Eating Disorder (BED) is in this version of the DSM (hardly "The Book" - don't get me started on that rant) under the category "Eating Disorder Not Otherwise Specified". To have BED, you have to binge eat twice per week, but binge eating is defined as eating 1) a large amount of food and 2) feeling out of control. I believe it's this pairing of a behavior and a psychological abnormality (usually some kind of distress) that distinguishes a psychiatric illness from an otherwise problem behavior. Turns out about 30% of the morbidly obese meet criteria for BED, but this means about 70% don't. What this looks like in real life is a 300 lb guy who begins a binge on three or four boxes of fish and chips, and *halfway through* begins to weep, but keeps going anyway.
So, should compulsive overeating that is not binge eating be called psychiatric? I don't know - it'd be interesting to know what fraction of OA participants had BED - bet it's high, but I could be wrong. I'll look into it.
Anthony -
Well, as the witch said, it's a fair cop - I was arguing a bit a of a straw man, in retrospect. Certainly we are seeing more and more patients with eating disorders, including anorexia, who *were* obese and then underwent gastric bypass surgery to lose weight, and then their latent fear of fatness is unleashed, and they can't stop losing weight. Very interesting, and very sad.
WRT your comment that most things labeled anorexic are not, there is interesting data from the Mayo Clinic looking at "occult eating disorders" [which means not identified by a physician as such, not "accompanied by pagan ritual"] that suggests, much like alcoholism, that most patients with eating disorders never come to clinical attention at all. Most alcoholics never go to AA, never seek individual treatment or do rehab, etc. I've met a lot of women who tell me about their "flirtation" with eating disorders in college, that their sister is still not quite right about food, etc. And again, I think the thing that these folks recognize (like the male medical students I run into who tell me about their times on the wrestling team) is the psychological burden that is reinforced by the behavior. They recognized that something in their attitude is no longer unthinking, but willfully perverse, and unlike them at their baseline. How many people do you know from college who made a conscious choice to cut down on their drinking some time before they graduated? Many, I would guess. So, do all those folks have alcoholism? No, but for all the people that go ahead and stop, there are those whose behaviors spiral out of control.
Finally, over at PostSecret this week are a couple of germain postcards - one showing a bowl of mac and cheese "this is my drug", and one "ever since you told me I was fat I've used your toothbrush to make me vomit".
Feh - are there consequences for unrestrained blog commenting? Binge Blogging Disorder, anyone?
Cheerfully -
-- AMEN!
1. Most people with EDs do not die from being too thin. They'll die from organ failure, sometimes years after recovery.
2. Liking food (aka being a 'food slut') or drinking alcohol, the two xanga community topics mentioned, are no big deal. When you develop a compulsive eating disorder or alcoholism, you are taking those to actions to extremity. Anorexia is an extreme action, based sometimes in weight but moreso in control.
3. Your examples of women who can simply "say no" to a piece of cheesecake show even more that you don't have a bloody clue. Eating only 500 calories a day can kill a person. Anorexia is not dieting. Period. Anorexia is a complicated mental health disorder that usually transcends the issue of weight and has more to do with society, control of the body, and mind-numbing perfection in everything.
There is no feasible way of documenting how many girls and women actually suffer from some sort of eating disorder because we are taught, in this day and age, to be perfect always, and anorexia is a weakness to be hidden. Many women control their weight to look "normal" while not having normal eating habits in the least. Anorexia affects every single type of woman, across all social, racial, and religious boundaries - I myself and a radical feminist dyke who everyfuckingday struggles to put food in my mouth and then not throw it up. I, like so many in different ways, was taught to succeed through my schooling, my extracurriculars, my job performance, and my appearance. The anorexia of today is about so much more than fitting into a size one, and until people wake up and realize it isn't just dieting too much, we'll never be able to show young girls and grown women alike that perfection is a construct that should not be maintained.
I SAID that the person refusing the cheesecake is NOT anorexic - to support my point that those who are dieting or are practicing healthy self-denial are NOT anorexic (as so many chunky girls are wont to call them.)
Could it be possible that the misunderstanding is not mine?
By the way, being a size 1 is not just about being able to say no to cheesecake or being healthy- it's also about being born with a very small frame. Most women wouldn't fit a size 1 even if they were starving themselves.
And if she's "obsessed" with fitting into a size 1, she may very well have an eating disorder. She doesn't make me jealous. I could probably kick her ass in any physical test, and I don't have to waste my energy "obsessing" about the number on my clothing- I can spend my time thinking about more productive things. Of course, my 20-mile bike commute each day requires more than 500 calories. Although, if I only cut back, I might be able to fit into those size 1 jeans...
It's not anorexia that is an affront to our way of living, it's moderation and thoughtful consumption. A disease isn't a good cure for bad habits.
The reason I used women as examples is because they were the focus of the story; and also, I never hear fat guys calling slim guys "anorexic". This is primarily an issue for women.
And you might be able to beat said size one girl in a physical competition, but I don't know what that teaches us.
To your last point, I'll say it again: anorexia *represents* an affront to our way of living. And a sensational affront at that. You give the average American too much credit. They are not shocked by anorexia because they understand the complex nuanced psychology of a true sufferer - that is, the masochistic goal of self-damage or self-destruction; they merely understand anorexia as undereating.
I'm also not suggesting it serves to cure bad habits, but I guess I am (now) suggesting that most Americans could stand to have their faces riveted shut for a while.
Could you please let me know the citation for that study? Thank you.
The abstract of the study is at:
http://tinyurl.com/jkxkh
I don't understand what is so threatening to you or salacious about Williams' article. It seems like he is using a timely hook to do a public education piece on anorexia - what's so controversial about that? I don't think the article is suggesting that moderate or healthy eating is bad or that exercise should be avoided. I don't think he is championing excessive weight gain. No where does Williams say what these girls really ought to do is curl up on the couch with a gallon of Ben and Jerry's for a movie marathon. The article is not about obesity and that's OK. The article is drawing attention to some borderline and some extreme dieting tactics. I think you would be hard pressed to find one reputable dietician or physician that would approve a 500 calorie a day diet for an adolescent.
I completely agree with what I think is one of your underlying points which is that not every diet leads to eating disorders. Many eating disorders didn't start as a diet in the first place. For a lot of people with eating disorders, it isn't really about the food or their appearance. Food intake becomes a way to assert control in a situation where for any number of reasons the person feels powerless or out of control. It is a coping mechanism for dealing with everything and anything. The habit(s) though, be it restricting, binging, purging, compulsively exercising, abusing laxatives/diuretics, etc., become powerfully entrenched and even though it didn't start by being about food it ends up controlling their lives. But for other people, eating disorders have begun by a diet and whether it is a genetic predisposition, an addictive personality, or just crap luck, the diet initially healthy or not, warranted or not, becomes an addiction. The behaviors become more and more extreme. The weight loss becomes addictive. Whether it starts as a coping mechanism or as a diet is immaterial to your body. The extreme malnutrition and electrolyte imbalances that accompany eating disorders can cause major/permanent organ damage even in those who never become particularly low weight.
While implying that every diet leads to eating disorders is an unfortunate and inappropriate scare tactic, I don't think that is what Williams is doing. I think he is just creating a space for people to pause and reevaluate the choices they are making. Thankfully most people will never develop a DSM IV eating disorder but lots of people have disordered aspects to their eating or their thought processes around eating and I am always happy to see an article that inspires a little self-reflection on the topic.
I didn't imply that Alex was encouraging obesity. I used the article as a hook to discuss the greater issue that we're confronting as a society: that is, that we are a very fat people and we're much more afraid of anorexia than obesity, which makes zero sense.
"Xanga's chief executive, John Hiler, is quoted in the Times article saying it is their corporate policy to delete any "pro anorexia" groups from the system."
A bit off topic, but John Hiler isn't doing a very good job. The following link takes you to a list of Xanga blogrings, the large majority of which are pro-anorexia/eating disorder:
Xanga Blogrings
yeah. but good article..the one thing is that a 500 calorie diet would KILL most people. ive tried and i was constantly collapsing, i couldnt run at ALL because i was collapsing then too.
kudos!!
There's simply a lot more to Eating Disorders than many care to know. I could go on and on, making several points that I feel are valid, but what would be the sense? I don't believe my views on the subject will change one person's mind about it. I hope that your writing on the subject has inspired people to learn more about eating disorders. That is truly the first step toward an informed opinion and understanding of the subject. For those who choose to be ignorant they will be looked at as such.
Take care.
So tell me, oh wise man, am I a big 'ol fatty fat ass?
What I'm trying to say is, her being skinny and me not doesn't imply that either one of us is abnormal. If my once-a-week ice cream habit means I must weigh 125 pounds for the rest of my life, so be it. I'd resent it immensely if someone called my roommate anorexic or bulimic. But I also resent the assumption that ALL women who get fat get that way because they're greedy overeating pigs. I had major struggles with my own weight in my early teens, and even now have hips with a circumference (38 inches, if you must know)that's a good deal wider than those I see on girls around me. And my weight issues weren't through any lack of physical activity or dietary abstinence. Not all women who look like they weigh a bit more than Mary-Kate Olsen are that way because they couldn't say no to a Big Mac and a cheesecake after. If you want to look as tiny as that, you have to be born that way- and being a size 6 is perfectly ok. I agree with you about abstinence not being the same as anorexia, and there's nothing very wrong about wanting to fit into smaller jeans, but if it's gotten to the point where your weight dominates your life that's just plain bad. Even if you aren't anorexic.
I suppose a lot of your post as to be placed in the context of American society and its eating habits, which certainly sound unhealthy enough from what I hear (as you might guess, I am not American), and I can sympathise with the girl who refuses desserts because she doesn't want to get fat. I can sympathise with the girl who can eat like a human garbage disposal and not gain any weight (I know at least four of those). And I agree it's cruel to call perfectly healthy girls anorexic just to be able to say to yourself "she got that way by being sick, and I can't get that way because i'm not anorexic, and therefore there must be something wrong with her that there isn't with me." But it's no less cruel to tell normally-sized girls that they're fat simply because their ribs don't stick out.
Just because you are a vegan doesn't mean you're healthy. And just because you're a feminist doesn't mean you're right. And just because you're sick doesn't mean you can't get well. And you just because you can't become a size 1 doesn't mean you shouldn't try to become as healthy as you can, gievn your genetics, socioeconomic level, activity levels, and current health.
Otherwise, that's a lot of equivocation with the word "anorexic" and "anorexia." Perception and reality indeed. It's a serious accusation, and anyone (men or women) should be considering how to help the victims of anorexia than blithely being jealous of them. Otherwise, "anorexic" becomes a term that means "enviable bodyshape" rather than "debilitating disease."
Nevertheless, I don't understand this "emblematic American appetite," isn't this perception perpetuated more by American males than by females? Actually, more by American restaurants who serve gigantic helpings of food that no one should feel the obligation to finish. I question the thought that people continue to eat when they're full - how does this even make sense, unless it's another mental illness-- and the inherent enviability of women (or people) who would rather be constantly hungry.
It's very well to refuse cheesecake because you're full, or just not interested in cheesecake as part of your diet, these are healthy signs-- cheesecake's really a very artery clogging indulgence-- and another to refuse to cheesecake because you like feeling hungry, and was considering your bodyweight is somehow better served by swallowing air than substance, that is not a healthy sign.
The only word I can think of to describe your outlook on this issue is ignorant.
Personally, I find myself struggling with the biggie-size mentality. I find it difficult to restrain myself while everyone else indulges to the max. I have learned, but it has taken me a long time to see that I don't have to eat that cheesecake just because my husband/friend/coworker does.
When you live in a part of the US known for it's "pear-shaped people" it can be difficult to see that the norm is not always the best.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything that you wrote. I'd venture to suggest that anyone who disagrees with you is probably in the above-mentioned 2/3 of the population, and therefore offended by your statements.
We NEED far far far less food than we actually consume. We should not eat dairy, wheat, sugar or processed foods, yet these are the dietary staples of most North Americans. People are obviously ill-informed about nutrition, and feel that deprivation is some sort of a disease, when it's actually one of the best ways to maintain vitality and overall good health.
I wear a 0 or 00. I am not sickly and I eat 3 (or more!) meals a day. In response to an above comment -- I did better on physical fitness tests than anyone in my class (junior year of college). Physically able people come in a variety of sizes. Every single day people in my school and other aspects of my life have something obnoxious to say about what I eat or how my body looks. Maybe I am something of an anomaly, but you won't find me walking around making snide remarks to every overweight person I see.
The problem is with the nutritional education of most "Americans," who grow up being told to eat food that is more and more unhealthy. I think the real thing to worry about is the astounding rate of deaths related to obesity, and the rising rates of obesity in children. I have an 11 year old cousin that makes me look like I am a twig. I am lucky to have received my father's genes that lean toward a lanky body, where my sister received my mother's and is overweight.
I also have to say that I agree that the problem of society condemning all thin girls as anorexic is ridiculous...thin males would have to be so as well, and seemingly are ignored. However, I also must recognize that their are real people out there with anorexia that do need medical help. Anorexia can be so extreme that the diagnosed will look in the mirror and no longer see themselves, but a grotesque and overweight version. They will do anything, from diet pills to laxatives and worse to lose the weight, at personal risk. I've seen the result of "real" anorexia; those who are more like skeletons with skin over the bones of their bodies. They certainly should not be ignored to starve to death, because in the end the human body will eat itself for fuel...until nothing is left.
Ironically, however, I also feel the pressure of society. I look in the mirror and recognize the need to tone or lose weight in an area that to someone much larger than me would seem ridiculous. It's all about how you process thse thoughts. I still believe I have the most unnatractive thighs on the east coast. As long as women can see inner beauty and stay healthy, and realize that if everyone looked the same life would be utterly boring, then I think they should be fine with their body shapes and sizes. My sister is a size 14 and takes a beautiful picture because she is comfortable with herself. I rarely take one I like.
I could likely continue, but will end this here. This issue has too many sensitive topics, and both sides hold relevant arguments.
I saw a spread in Adbusters a few years ago that had a picture of famine victims with a caption "dying of failure" and then a picture of fat kids chowing down at McDonalds with the caption "dying of success"
I often think of that spread when looking at those magazines insisting all thin stars are "dying"
in fact, a 500 calorie diet will do a great deal of harm.
anorexia has been framed as a "pathology" about a century ago i think, although arguably the phenomenon dates back much earlier. it has been asociated mostly with women but there are cases of male anorexia as well. there is a turn of the century novel by knut hamsun called "hunger" where a male character deals with what i would call a form of anorexia. having to do more with controlling the urge to eat / rebelling against "nature"/ than with body image.
consider also the "hunger artist," a phenomenon of the turn of the century again. and also a predominantly male figure. some people gave the example of gandhi who fasted a lot, and also used the hunger strike as a political strategy. hunger strike is not practiced as a form of political resistance in the u.s. so much, but it is frequently used in other places. more often than not, when you are imprisoned and when there is nothing else you can fight with. i, like a couple others, liken anorexia to hunger strike. it is a form of resistance --to that impossible bodily ideal by going so beyond that ideal such that the ideal itself is parodied-- which looks deceptively like giving in.
this is not to encourage anorexia-- but to de-pathologize it. it is not those who become anorexic who are "sick," but the form of society that pushes someone to that limit.
there _is_ a body ideal marketed in the mainstream that the bodies of many of us do not fit. (this creates a tremendous amount of self-hatred and fat hatred.)
and this body ideal changes. it is not static. for this decade it might be size 0 in the u.s.. but half a century earlier, marlyn monroe was the ideal and she was, according to a website on fat pride i surfed today, a size 16. perceptions of what is considered beautiful, healthy or acceptable are not only in constant flux but relative. they also change from one place to another. i am something like size 11 by u.s. standards (i think). so according to some, i am overweight. according to BMI i am "normal." according to some i am voluptuous. according to my family and my lover i am perfect. according to me i am alright. health.. fitness.. similarly these are also culturally-determined constructs.
and i am really at a loss whether to even define people over 400 pounds "obese" or "abnormal." ultimately it is about whether you feel at peace with where you are, whether or not it fits within a medical or cultural system of belief.
consider this webpage "for people who do not apologize for their size" : http://www.fatso.com/
anorexia has been framed as a "pathology" about a century ago i think, although arguably the phenomenon dates back much earlier. it has been asociated mostly with women but there are cases of male anorexia as well. there is a turn of the century novel by knut hamsun called "hunger" where a male character deals with what i would call a form of anorexia. having to do more with controlling the urge to eat / rebelling against "nature"/ than with body image.
consider also the "hunger artist," a phenomenon of the turn of the century again. and also a predominantly male figure. some people gave the example of gandhi who fasted a lot, and also used the hunger strike as a political strategy. hunger strike is not practiced as a form of political resistance in the u.s. so much, but it is frequently used in other places. more often than not, when you are imprisoned and when there is nothing else you can fight with. i, like a couple others, liken anorexia to hunger strike. it is a form of resistance --to that impossible bodily ideal by going so beyond that ideal such that the ideal itself is parodied-- which looks deceptively like giving in.
this is not to encourage anorexia-- but to de-pathologize it. it is not those who become anorexic who are "sick," but the form of society that pushes someone to that limit.
there _is_ a body ideal marketed in the mainstream that the bodies of many of us do not fit. (this creates a tremendous amount of self-hatred and fat hatred.)
and this body ideal changes. it is not static. for this decade it might be size 0 in the u.s.. but half a century earlier, marlyn monroe was the ideal and she was, according to a website on fat pride i surfed today, a size 16. perceptions of what is considered beautiful, healthy or acceptable are not only in constant flux but relative. they also change from one place to another. i am something like size 11 by u.s. standards (i think). so according to some, i am overweight. according to BMI i am "normal." according to some i am voluptuous. according to my family and my lover i am perfect. according to me i am alright. health.. fitness.. similarly these are also culturally-determined constructs.
and i am really at a loss whether to even define people over 400 pounds "obese" or "abnormal." ultimately it is about whether you feel at peace with where you are, whether or not it fits within a medical or cultural system of belief.
consider this webpage "for people who do not apologize for their size" : http://www.fatso.com/
2. Almost all of the health risks when it comes to eating are on the side of overreating.
Obviously you are un educated on the subject of anorexia else you wouldnt say that a girl who is obsessing about fitting into a size 1 pair of jeans isnt anorexic or suffering from anorexia. You are an idiot... get educated or shut up!
www.mamavision.com
You don't know? Well, think it through then, since you're such a brilliant philosopher: this example teaches us that being strong and robust is better than starving yourself into weakness, to take pride in your body rather than hating it, and that size does not always indicate health.
And your admission that you have a preference for thinner women puts this article into the opinion section and not news reporter. Why not just say you prefer thin frames and leave the anorexics and other ED-sufferers out of it? And why don't you just come out and say that American overconsumption is bad instead of bashing on people with food issues?
Criticism and snobbery won't solve the obesity issue; if anything, it will make those who aren't a size 0 a lot more defiant. Have you heard of the Fat Acceptance movement? (And no, it's not the same as the food slut club.) While I understand that obesity and overweight can create health issues, I also know that fat people should be treated with respect as human beings and are not symbols of some "emblematic American appetite."
And having lived on 500 calorie diets myself, I can tell you they are unhealthy and make you miserable. Just because you can say no to a bowl of ice cream does not make you morally superior.
Oh, true, true, good sir. Your estimate was not far off, give or take 45 lives that are lost each year because of ignorance like yours. Give or take all of the people you must have affected so badly because of your biggoted article. You are a self righteous turd, if I do say so myself. If you have daughters, is this what you tell them?
"and that’s far more dangerous than any 500 calorie-a-day diet could ever be."
Try a two hundred calorie diet! Try not being able to eat a bite of bread without having a near panic attack. You cannot morph all eating disorders into one big issue and shove it aside calling it "Intellectually puddle deep" in fact, I would consider you as such.
Cancer does not affect every single American citizen either, it is not as huge of a problem as obesity is either, does that mean you are going to write an article about ignoring their fight also?
My issues with anorexia ARE about control, they DO have to do with me not eating the cheesecake served after dinner, also not eating dinner at all when it comes down to it. I pity you and your ignorance to this issue, I have to say that though not every girl I know is dying from starvation, every girl I know has at one time considered it. Every girl I know is self concious. Every girl I know could be driven to do something stupid because of your words. Every. Single. One. What I have to say to you is this: I AM the girl who is obsessed with fitting into my size zero jeans. I AM the girl who others think is thin but I can't see it. I AM dying.
But I'm sure, that's less than a dent in your all knowing radar, isn't it?
Thank you for firing me up, I needed a way to let out my stress today.
No love,
Amy
I urge you to look at this and realize that it is going on to way more than 1% of America, and can also end in death.
EDNOS (Eating Disorder Not Specified) Which includes those girls who are trying to fit into their bikinis and the ones who are "just jealous" of the girl who wears a size one or whatever.
http://www.something-fishy.org/whatarethey/edno...
Wow. Thanks for writing it. There are so many people out there who think that they suffer from an eating disorder, when they really do not.
For someone who had anorexia you arent very bright else you would know that anorexia nervosa isnt just about the physical side but also the mental processes so i disagree with you when you say EDNOS isnt a dangerous eating disorder! You can be at a healthy weight but be dangerously sick! You can be underweight but still be considered healthy. People with EDNOS are suffering from the same as people with anorexia and bulimia but they may not meet one requirements for diagnoses. A person that eats 3 meals a day who wouldnt fit into anorexia or bulimia but who takes laxatives every day is doing dangerous stuff to her/his body...
I have been disagnosed with an eating disorder, but it doesnt make me an expert but i do know that it isnt about what i do or dont look like because it is about so much more than that.
so i completely disagree with your uneducated statement.
Now I agree on the point where all these wannabe anorexics are looking for attention, but not all of us are like that. There is nothing glamorous about throwing up your food, and passing out. Thats just stupid.
With over population and all, can't some ppl learn NOT 2 eat soooo much? There's only so much of it 2 go around.
1. This article isn't talking about individuals suffering from anorexia or bulimia, rather, people who are naturally thin or have a healthy understanding of self-control when it comes to diet and exercise. Commenters who are equating self-control to anorexia is taking it to the extreme. It's not so black and white, starvation or binging.
2. The whole size 1 thing - granted it might have worked if the author had used a more common size. But the point is that everyone has a size they're striving for regardless if that is size 1, 6, 14, etc. Nobody should be continuously buying larger sizes due to expanding waist, unless you are overeating and continuously gaining weight.
3. Last point, a huge stickler for me is that personally I have a small frame and hasnt gained much weight (maybe 1-3 lbs) since high school. I'm 30. But this is a natural state for me for me. However, people (jealous, concerned, hateful, etc) would make snide comments regarding my weight all the time. As one commenter pointed out, I don't and can't make comments to people who are obese because that would be considered rude to to cultural norms (as this article is emphasizing) and yet calling me names is okay? This point seems to be largely ignored by the commenters who are criticizing this article.
I think making insincere/critical comments to people of all weights is rude and inconsiderate. Calling someone a fat slob or skeletor are both insulting. If someone truly has a eating disorder on either spectrum, there's a better way to approach them.
thanks for reading